v105. This hak allows characters to equip non-proficient weapons at a -4 attack penalty. v104 is baseitems.2da driven only, and works without any special feats. Although you do lose the bardic weapons and dwarven familiarity, it is the least invasive and works with all existing and new characters and NPCs--also, no tlk required and can be implemented into any existing game world.
Included is a hak for both default and CEP modules, erf, and sample module. Many thanks to lord rosenkrantz for helping to improve the system. v104 solves server relog issue. Questions, comments, please use thread below.
NOTE: CEP users will have to stick with 1.66 version until CEP team can update its baseitems.2da to include tridents. There's a whole new column in there for grayscale hak bug resolution, so you can't use this new version.
Posted by bighairyandy at 2012-02-08 15:10:27 Voted 10.00 on 02/06/12
I've managed to get this working with the proper 3.5e bard weapon proficiencies too, checking against the Bardsong feat, and added a section to give dwarves proficiency with dwarven waraxes (checking against the Stonecunning feat). I wouldn't even have known any of that was possible if it wasn't for this hak. Thanks again!
Posted by bighairyandy at 2012-02-06 14:52:40 Voted 10.00 on 02/06/12
Fantastic work, Vulc. Thanks.
Do you realise that this doesn't need to be a hak? If it's just a 2da override, you can stick that in your server's override directory and the players don't need to download it to equip the items. The rest is just scripting.
I take it that this version can be used with v1.68 non-CEP modules, but not with CEP2 modules? Any chance of you releasing a CEP2-compatible version? :)
Cheers! _________________________ "He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. For if you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you."
Friedrich Nietzsche
Posted by Mozenwrathe at 2006-05-08 10:11:04 Voted 10.00 on 05/08/06
No idea how this all works. Why did I give it a ten? Because I am sending this link as well as all the valuable information provided to people who CAN translate all of this into a format that someone like me - a regular player - will be able to use. There are at least four other potential solutions to this issue I have seen posted on the Vault. Have you taken a look at any of those before?
It can, but it won't apply the penalty for non-proficient items, because the NWN1 OC does not use the equip event, ever (this event came out later). By exporting the baseitems.2da out of the hak and into your override folder, it will work in any module, just not with the equip penalty unless the OnEquip module event is changed. You could do that for all the chapters of any OC (or end-user module), but that's not something I'm really supporting here.
Well, not exactly final. I will need to update this for 1.67, as baseitems.2da is getting some new content (trident is going to be a default base item). Not much trouble there, will have it up the day of or day after 1.67 is final.
Yup, caps are a bear here, and I really don't want to make an invasive and kludgy workaround. The weapons work perfectly, without even a hint of kludge. Therefore, I am not undertaking the armor proficiencies. The current release is final.
Posted by Normandy at 2006-01-30 15:55:03 Voted 9.75 on 01/26/06
I agree that the armor hak idea should probably be dropped, because of the NWN limitations. Weapons are enough, really. Thanks for this, BTW.
Personally I won't be using the "all characters can wear any armor" feature because of the way NWN works. It offers a limited range of penalties available as item properties, and doesn't offer for example the option to further decrease the AC of a non-proficient character by other AC subtypes except the "armor" subtype.
The alternative option to apply the penalties to the character instead of the armor itself is not available either, as the scripting language handles the effects as constructors, which means they are just a scripting tool to apply the real effects to an object. It means that once the effects (in this case, the penalties) are applied to the desired creature, one can only remove the real effect, not the constructor effect used to apply them, hence removing a penalty applied to a character would most likely interfere with any other kind of scripts that use penalties of any sort. Removing an AC penalty upon unequipping an armor the character is not proficient with, for example, might remove the AC penalty applied by a curse song. There are a few options to prevent such things to an extent, like using specific duration types or specific effect subtypes (extraordinaire, supernatural). But the combos available are definitelly not enough, and an advanced module would likely be using them already for something else.
Sorry for the digression, I wanted to take the chance to explain how things work in my knowledge, in case I am wrong and someone else could enlighten me a bit more.
Anyway, if what I wrote above is true, it leaves the sole option to use the item itself to apply the penalties (as item properties), which is the option Vulcano used for the weapon equipping script, I guess exactly because of the difficulties above.
Unfortunatelly, while this approach is good enough for weapons, it doesn't seem to be enough for armors. Equipping a full plate while not proficient with it should lead to an ac penalty -at least- equal to the AC class of the worn armor. Which is exactly what isn't allowed by the engine, as the AC penalty as item property caps at -5.
A Dexterity AND a reflex save penalty could actually do the trick then, since no better options are left. It would make sense from a roleplay point of view, and would discourage the use of non-proficient-with armors well enough.
Still it would allow for exploits though: if the server/module is using CNR for example, wearing a non-proficient-with armor would allow the player to still get crafting XP despite the fact they can make certain items with trivial difficulty (it's the old "lower your stats when crafting" trick).
Ok, opinion time. The only negative item prop with "teeth" for armor is a saving throw penalty (up to -20). My thought is to just slap a save penalty for non-proficient armor to make use less desirable. The alternative is to get really invasive with your enter and death code for spell effects. Which is the better way to go?
Working on it. Hopefully it can still be handled from the equip events, but I may have to run a couple more checks as item property penalties are capped rather low.
Posted by Normandy at 2006-01-26 10:11:14 Voted 9.75 on 01/26/06
Yes, definitely about time.
Posted by Theri the Dark at 2006-01-26 09:03:51 Voted 10.00 on 01/26/06
It's about time someone got around to doing this. _________________________ A pencil is like a god, with one side it creates and with the other it destroys.
-Crafting tools- IS one of the main reasons why I found this system so interesting.
The other one is that this way, any random equipment generator works flawlessly, because no matter what weapon is spawned, creatures will always be able to use them, even those from Bioware's palettes, which otherwise would need to be reworked to grant them the missing proficiencies.
Matter of fact, I'll definitelly extend the script to cover shields and armors too, assigning them major penalties if the wearer/wielder isn't proficient.
I just had another thought on the benefits of this system: Crafting. No matter which system you use, crafters can equip and modify appearance of any weapon (of course, if you do this, it's probably best to eliminate the feedback, as it could get annoying). Also, many of the craft systems out there with resource gathering use "tools" that are actually weapons (light hammers, picks, hand axes). This system allows crafters to gather those resources without needlessly wasting feats.
This really looks like the final version of the script, the bug mentioned has disappeared for good, and there is likely nothing else that could possibly alter the proper functioning of the script.
Thanks for the support, I kept checking the scripts and everything seemed to be fine, so I started to think it was a client enter problem (as I know the engine fires a legacy of other events in that case). I don't have a direct knowledge of scripting though, so I suppose I could have found the solution just by randomly inserting a validity check somewhere.
But I thought it was wiser to report the bug and wait for a proper solution, as anyway this issue required to be addressed for the benefit of that part of the community that is going to use this script.
I'll treasure the experience with this little bug though, for future reference.
v104 uploaded. Apparently, in the order of engine code for log in, the PC is not a valid object when the OnEquip fires as part of client entry, at least not by NWscript. I fixed this by adding a check for PC validity. This in no way affects non-proficient weapons, as once those are equipped, the only way to get rid of the penalty is to unequip it. Also, further testing showed the delayed check to be unnecessary. If you have problems with lag and polymorphed creatures getting penalties they shouldn't, you should add a delay commmand of 0.1 to the vApply function in the OnEquip.
If a character joins a server that is using the script, and equips a weapon the character IS proficient with, everything works as intended, including the removal of the penalty upon unequipping the weapon.
But if the player logs off while still wielding said weapon, upon next login the weapon wielded, although proficient with, displays the attack penalty.
The weird aspect of it is that unlike equipping a non-proficient-with weapon in game, upon login no feedback message is displayed.
I wonder if something happens at client login (it might trigger the OnEquip event, for example, although in a weird way).
I have checked the server setting and even scripts, and there is nothing that interferes with the OnEquip script. The module has no OnClientEnter/OnClientLeave scripts, and the only OnPlayerEquip/Unequip scripts are your default scripts.
Maybe something happens with the local variables? Or something happens upon logging off, as it might trigger the OnPlayerUnequip event somehow (I kind of suspect that for the game, exiting or entering the game triggers the equipping/unequipping scripts, but then, why no message is displayed?)
COuld otherwise be a matter of checking if the object is valid in the vApplyProfOnEquip() function, or in the vGetIsProficientWithWeapon() integer?
Nope, the new system doesn't provide for that. It follows the default NWN1 weapon feat rules, but only the D&D equip rules. Allowing for focus and spec would require a specific feat.2da hak version for the katana. You can edit this yourself by downloading the 1.66 2da source. Then, in lines 84 and 122 of feat.2da, under the column PREREQFEAT1, change that from 44 to 45. Finally, in vulc_inc_profs, cut and paste the line check for BASE_ITEM_KATANA in the vGetIsExoticWeapon to the vGetIsMartialWeapon function. That should do the trick.
Posted by Azrael ( 200.113.xxx.xxx ) at 2006-01-23 17:33:12
Hi... I see its easy to make this changes to the script but... This will not make, for example, availaible the katana weapon focus for a character with the martial prociciency, will do it?
@Rockdude. Sorry, this is not only beyond the scope of the project, it is not even possible. All of those feats are engine level feats (focus, spec, dev crit, etc) and cannot be added or modified. I had thought to do a system for these that used dynamic item props, but some just cannot be done without being really kludgy or super invasive on the builder, and there are caps on such effects that cannot be overcome. Maybe this will change in NWN2, maybe not.
Uploaded the final, baseitems.2da only version. While this does lose the bardic and dwarven feats, it is the least invasive and can be used in any module, even existing modules with large server vaults. I think this is the most beneficial method for the community, as it works for standard, CEP, and even PRCC with no special effort.
Posted by Anonymous ( 65.114.xxx.xxx ) at 2006-01-23 12:40:13
Yep, you're right, rosenkrantz. Can be done without the general feat. The simplest version would include only baseitems.2da for both versions. If you wanted the bardic weapons and dwarven weapon familiarity feats, you'd have to include a few extras and the tlk. I think baseitems + code may work best for most people.
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