Time depends on interaction with the various characters and objects in the module. Lots of talking with NPCs...over 400,000 words of conversation, including interactive chat with many placeables.
I completed this module back in August with a druid (ending at lvl 8) and forgot to write anything about it. There is huge amount of work put together by the author and certainly deserve more than 200-ish downloads.
I too will wait for the final edition replay it once more and give a proper vote.
Looks like an intelligent, mature module. Would love to play it once the final release w/bugfixes happens. Thanks for taking the time to create and update this mod.
I thank you for the comments and especially the feedback. I have copied and pasted into my major bug list and I am in the process of reviewing and fixing. Because I did most of the playtesting up until this point, I've gotten some serious tunnel vision and I've missed a few things. But rest assured that I will get a final working copy up and ready as soon as possible. I really, really appreciate your input, it's marvelous and it will help me to pinpoint things and get them remedied. Unfortunately, since I am still keeping my eyes open to all feedback, some of the issues you found may be repaired already, but I don't want to release a bunch of micro-fixes. I prefer to get as much as I can repaired, and I hope to make the next release the last one.
I am grateful to you for the excellent feedback. I can tell that you spent a lot of time playing, and I want to make sure that none of your time or anyone else's will go to waste.
Posted by Beer4WD at 2009-06-21 22:49:54 Voted 9.00 on 06/21/09
Hi Zejan,
I spent the last week playing your module. I enjoy it a lot due to the dialogues. I appreciate it is still a beta version and there are still some bugs (and I am not talking about the numerous ones in the caves).
I am impressed by the amount of text in this module. Not only the dialogue but the notes, books, comments, placeables and other items. All very well written, with some funniness that fits my sense of humor.
As mentioned by other reviewers, modules where you can talk to each and every NPC (that includes animals and monsters) are rare. Thanks for putting together this effort. But this has a drawback: conversations options are not updated as they should.
I am going to report a few bugs I encountered while playing. Hope this will help you to fix them and make your module eligible for Hall of Fame (which I think it will deserve when all bugs are fixed).
*** Spoilers ahead ***
Quest Boy/Dog: the boy stays in the Regal Inn forever after I completed the quest.
Quest Gnome/Herbs in Regal Inn: Gnome is always sleeping. (BTW, I am not sure I managed to deliver the herbs to the Herbalist even though I talked to her).
Quest Wizard/Flawed gem: as I knew what will happen to me when I give the gem, I killed him before he applies his magic on me. The quest does not close.
Quest �unreachable treasure�: I understood from the toolset that a gem is needed. But the only way to get it was to be in DebugMode, and run the script dm_make_gem while being near the entrance of the Regal Inn (gen is created in garbage barrel). Was it intentional? (I do think that you have created this module to play with your friends and that a DM is controlling some events).
Quest Mine: after I understood that Veran is the bad guy, and got a deal with the Goblin leader to kill him, I went to Veran�s shop, travel thru the mirror, kill a few undead, then the bodyguard, then arrive in front the door to the lab. Locked! I did not find the key in the toolset. So I �jumped� in DebugMode� within the lab.
Quest Spider Queen: I killed the one that does not talk, got the silk gland but the quest does not close when I talk to Mayor. What did I miss? Or is this quest messing up with the quest of the spider which talks?
*** End Spoilers ***
If my feedback has some value for you, I may provide more comments as I intend to play this module again (I got the Dragon�s treasure but I know from looking in the Toolset that I have not gone everywhere.
Again thanks for sharing this module. Amazing piece of work!
I haven't forgotten about this mod and within the next few days I hope to do some playtesting again, in order to offer a little more constructive critiscm.
I've found Fennvale interesting enough so far, so don't lose your heart! :)
That explains why I never saw that one-liner...
If most players are like me they'll not even click on the web because they're not used to your refreshing RP approach. We see a web, we try to bash it down. That's how we were conditioned by NWN. :D
I'll be away for a week now but once I get back to testing your mod I'll let you know.
First of all, and this may sound repetitive, but MANY thanks for your exploration and bug-finding. I copy and paste everything into a checklist that I go over and shoot down each problem that's been found.
For the webs, if the player clicks on one without doing anything to it, the one-liner pops up. Perhaps I should change it to the first time the player decides to bash one...
Ouch, the chicken scenario is a big bug. Yes, the farmer *is* supposed to react to your being a chicken. As a matter of fact, he thinks you're his precious talking chicken and he decides to lock you up where it's nice and safe in the chicken coop. The hole and the rats are your means to escape, and that isn't working right either, because the rats also demand a specific kind of payment before they help you out - it's just a little more silliness, actually. I will go and take a look at it as soon as I finish this response.
And yes, if you'd like to email the bug finds, I'd be happy to have them that way too. _________________________ Eat? Drink? I'm SCRIPTING. Go away!
Good to hear! (both that my feedback is of use to you and that you're going to include even more innovative ideas in your mod) :)
As for the webs, I assume the game should be able to differentiate between clicking and bashing. If I understand the advice you gave me (I haven't tested it yet), the way to do it is clicking on the web with a torch in hand, while the one-liner pops up only when you try to bash it, right? If that's the case I don't think it's a problem, because once the players know how to do it right they won't bash the webs anymore and therefor the one-liner will not reappear. If they keep on bashing though, that means they didn't get the hint yet, so there's nothing wrong with repeating it.
I've played some more, here's what I noticed today:
- When I first ran into the goblin hordes loitering at night near the locked gate to the Fernesk mine, I fled up the hill to the chicken coop to hide(how fitting :D). Of course they followed me and engaged me in combat but they were also shooting at the chicken and the chicken farmer came to my aid and took part in the battle. That's realistic and was fun in this case, but it could also have ended with the farmer dying. Have you thought about this possibility? If you don't want that to happen, you'd probably be better off assigning the townfolk and animals a neutral custom faction that doesn't care about friend or foe and is ignored by hostile creatures, too. Or you could give them so much hp that the risk of dying becomes rather small (in my game the farmer got down to "injured" status).
I was shocked at what the wizard near the coop did to me. That was hilarious! :D I liked the mod so far, now I'm beginning to love it. I think you should work more with this original and particular situation. I've found it a bit strange that the farmer didn't notice my new condition when he came running and was disappointed that he only wanted to ask me if I had made any progress with his quest. I would have expected at least him of all NPC to react to another talking chicken, instead of ignoring the transformation. With a little extra work I'm sure you could make this a very memorable scene, bring a whole new perspective to NWN. I recently played "Recipe for Horror" where an amulet allows you to talk to animals and suddenly you find out every single animal in the mod has something to say, although they didn't talk to you before. That was great. So how about adding some one-liners or dialogue that will be unlocked once you're a chicken? Like, how will people react to you NOW?
Anyway, the thing related to this transformation that I wanted to bring to your attention is actually something else. I went down the hole in the chicken coop, talked to the left one of the rats and got some dialogue I think I shouldn't have got yet. The rat said stuff like "Changed your mind?" and "our part of the bargain" although this was the first time I had ever met them and there was no bargain at all...
PS: Please tell me if you prefer future bug-reports sent per e-mail instead of them cluttering the comment sections of the Vault.
Thanks again! You know, originally, I had the webs pop up the one-liner every time, but I thought a player might get annoyed at seeing it all the time. That's what I get for second-guessing...
I do recall the respawn penalties you mentioned about losing gp and xp. That's in the OC as well. I know how to put that back in, but you know, I also did have a respawn penalty in mind once that would be a bit different from most. I wasn't sure what people would make of it, but now that you've pointed this important aspect out to me, I think I'm going to work it in after all. Thanks for the inspiration, and thanks again for the feedback. It's solid gold. :) _________________________ Eat? Drink? I'm SCRIPTING. Go away!
don't worry, I'm aware it's a beta release. I actually started playing because I read you were looking for playtesters. If I note something you've already taken care of, just ignore it.
I definitely missed the one-liner. Perhaps it would be better if it popped up EVERY time someone tries to bash the webs? And to play it safe, you could also let the dwarf at the shop next to the entrance hint at it. The idea itself still raises my opinion of your mod, you just need to make sure everyone gets it. :)
As for the respawning penalties, my first suggestion would be to start a survey on the general discussion forum whether or not other players want penalties at all. I just remember that nearly all mods I played had some: Most of the time you just lose part of your xp and gold, sometimes respawning is even part of the story, e.g. you get teleported to the Astral Plane or a similar place where someone explains to you why you didn't really die yet and why you will be returned to life. Or the mods use a Stone of Recall. I don't know how you subtract a percentage of xp or gold from the PC, and neither how you do the thing with the Stone of Recall but I'm sure you could find some help with that on the toolset or scripting forum. The only thing I know is that if you create a waypoint with the tag NW_DEATH_TEMPLE, the PC will respawn at that location (could be the players lounge again, where someone can port you back to your place of death for a fee).
Thank you for the feedback. I'm not quite sure what to do about Respawn penalties, as this is my first attempt at a module, but I will look into that. do you mean just ending the game if the character dies, something like that?
The other errors and omissions you pointed out are noted and I will fix them, but please bear in mind that this is the final beta I plan to release. The next upload will be the finished product. I don't have too much to do to finish it though (any more bugs notwithstanding), so hopefully the completed version will be done soon.
As for the webs...there is a one-liner dialogue that pops up the very first time you encounter them. You might have missed it. Try equipping a torch, then walk up to one and click on it, see what happens. : ) _________________________ Eat? Drink? I'm SCRIPTING. Go away!
I've only just begun playing and I've already found some really nice ideas and effects in this mod, like map pins added after conversations, digging for gems, opening cocoons etc.
Here are some things I noticed so far that could still be improved in my opinion:
- The store in the players lounge at the beginning sells +1 weapons but no dagger +1. Not something I would expect from a mod where the recommended classes include rogue (I wanted to go for a halfling with ambidexterity dual-wielding daggers).
- (TYPING ERROR) In the Jerrick Welter conversation at the beginning, the PC can choose the option: "Where do I find the Mayor to ask him about thaose jobs?" - Make that "those".
- The webs in the Emerald Mine shouldn't be that resistent to damage or at least have fewer hp. It took my rogue forever to tear them down (I used a rapier+1; STR 15, DEX 16, Weapon Finesse). Whenever I had to hack my way through one of the many webs I would just start the bashing and then read a newspaper article until my PC was done. Boring. :(
- Apparently there are no penalties for respawning. personally I don't bother much with respawning anyway, I usually just reload. Still, it's annoying enough that I try not to get myself killed so often. Without any penalties though, I feel there's no real challenge either. I'd rather have easier fights with terrible consequences in case of death than challenging fights with the possibility of endless respawning. Makes we grab for the newspaper again, while I let my PC fight and should the character die, I just respawn and continue reading.
Of course, these are just my personal opinions and advice, and I state them here only because I hope this feedback might help you polish this promising mod. What you do with them is up to you. I'll let you know if I notice something else.
As soon as you told me about the bug, I knew exactly what went wrong and I fixed the code. I am currently working on a final bug run to cheack everything out and get a fully updated module posted.
Thanks for your help! _________________________ Eat? Drink? I'm SCRIPTING. Go away!
I am so happy to see you are still working to perfect this mod. It is by far the most expansive yet enjoyable one I ahve played in some time. I have ran into a few bugs (most listed above) but the one that is driving me crazy is that I cannot get into the greengold mine. I have purchased keys and permission from everyone I can and it still tells me it is locked when I try to open the door. _________________________ The skylark sings all day, and day is too short.
~ Basho
You're more than welcome! And thank you for the quick reply and the fact you are still taking comments and fixing things, two thubs up!
I wish you the best of luck, and I hope you enjoyed the holidays. Have a splenid 2009, and I'll check back regularly :) _________________________ "By believing, one can see"
Thank you so much for the feedback! It is definitely NOT you, but me being stupid. It's all my bad and I'm pouring over the scripts that are in dire need of repairs. Unfortunately, Morgan is being a royal pain in the butt for me, but I'm doing my best to straighten him out.
I also have to mend the bugs in the brothel. Rest assured that I've made a copy of your feedback and added it to my bug list. I'm hoping to fix things up during my Christmas vacation and my goal is to get something up and running before the new year. Wish me luck.
And thanks again for the feedback! ^__^
-- ZWM _________________________ Eat? Drink? I'm SCRIPTING. Go away!
First I want to let you know that I'm having a great time playing your mod, so thank you very much for creating a gem like this for the community!
Second though, I sadly have to report some bugs that got me stuck bad time :(
*******SPOILERS*******
1: After I gathered all the stories and told them to Morgan, he directs me to the Mayor, who won't believe my findings. Back to Morgan again, and he sends me to Greybeard to get some sort of key. When I reach the him however, nowhere in the opening script an option for this can be found. If I take another line of conversation I eventually do get to some option about questions regarding Morgan, but when I choose that dialogue I only get an "End conversation", nothing else.
2: In the brothel, I get something similair with the Jaden (Jaren?) guy. At some point in the conversation the script just suddenly stops and I can't get around it.
3: After entering the luxury bedroom with the sauna, I can't get out anymore...I talked to the people there and had a look around, and when I came back to the door it was locked. No way to unlock it than with a special key, and no key anywhere to be found :(
*******END SPOILERS*******
I'm not sure I'm just being plain stupid and overlooking something in the latter case, but I wanted to inform you anyhow. Hope there's a way around these problems, cause I'd love to finish the module! _________________________ "By believing, one can see"
I've heard that you have been doing a good job making this module. :) I won't be downloading it yet since you'll be releasing the final version soon, I think it's better to wait a little bit more, even though I would like to play right away. :D
Thanks for the excellent feedback! I realize what happened. That was one of the side quests that I hadn't completed. The ghost is supposed to appear once you leave the ranger's place and that's when you get the item. I will get to fixing that up and making sure it works.
Your help is greatly appreciated.
-- ZWM _________________________ Eat? Drink? I'm SCRIPTING. Go away!
I have encountered four problems inside the module up to now.
- After I have talked to the elven wizard inside the magic shop, I'm suppose to talk to his assistant to create a spell bomb. However, that dialog option is not shown. I have to reset the variable "MyMaxTalk" onto her from 30 to 50 in order to make it works.
- After I have talked to the ghost of the elven wizard, Thrar, inside the ruins. I need to take the berries to the ranger Allidel. However, he does not take those berries away. I have to put down the berries in order to continue the quest.
- After I go back to the Ruin Temple. The ghost Thrar does not spawn. I have to use DM command to spawn him and start the conversation.
Yes, still taking comments and will continue to do so. I'm glad you enjoyed what's there and rest assured that I will take note of all your comments and scour the mod to fix the bugs you mentioned.
Right now, I'm working hard on all the remarks everyone has made here so I can have a finished, working module before the end of the month. A lot of the issues listed have been taken care of, but I'm trying to avoid micro-releases so that ppl don't get sick of looking at the mod. The next submission will be the final, official release.
Thanks to you and again to everyone that helped with this. I know that a bug run though this module took a LOT of effort and I'm grateful to you all.
-- ZWM _________________________ Eat? Drink? I'm SCRIPTING. Go away!
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