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Title

Simple XP v1.07

Author

ScrewTape

Submitted / Updated

09-01-2004 / 11-22-2006

Category

Rulesets

Expansions

NWN-1.62

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ScrewTape brings you yet one more xp script. Why? well for several reasons, one being I've had several requests for configurable options that don't really apply to XP systems that use static tables. (Party Member weights, separate min/max HD/cr & cr/HD difference, max HD difference between members, +/- scale params for HD != CR). When I started my analysis of the DMG and Bioware xp systems, I missed the inherent mathematical relationship between equivalent CR ratings and equivalent xp awards and ended up using static tables to achieve accuracy. Why was this bad? Primarily because it made the system less configurable. You could slide awards up or down, but not alter the scale or other factors easily. Once these relationships were better understood, along with the concept of encounters per level and increasing encounters per level, I was able to liberate the scripts from using static tables. Now, the new system, <a target="_blank" href="https://web.archive.org/web/2012im_/http://nwvault.ign.com/Files/scripts/data/1094056502000.shtml">Simple XP</a>, is totally configurable from the point of the user. Because there are so many variables involved in the getting the final award, I also included an excel spreadsheet that allows you to tweak your numbers and see the final awards table. Also included are DMG 3.5 and Bioware base awards for comparison. I also really like the new distribution rules with the DMG 3.5 (see pp 37 for the steps and bottom page 42, "BEHIND THE CURTAIN: WHEN A PC FALLS BEHIND" for a detailed explanation). However, these rules created a bit of a monster for PW users. Although they are limited in the DMG to a difference of +/- 7 CR vs Level difference, this still left a situation at the extreme, where a 1st level player and a 15th level player could both gain xp killing a CR 8 creature, and the 1st level would gain xp for anything under 8 as well. With awards as much as 300, it didn't take long for the lower level PC to "Power Level" his way up. For this reason, I included optional, configurable limits to difference in party level and who gets xp when they are over that limit.

Analysis of encounters per level -
The DMG 3.5 uses an experience point system based on 13.33 encounters required to level, and that's the same whether your 1st level or 19th level. Bioware uses a system that starts at 21 encounters required to level, but then increases a little bit with each level, so 100 encounters are required to level from 39th to 40th. However, Bioware's scale isn't consistent. If you look strictly at the base awards, where player level = challenge rating, it takes 48 encounters to level to 4th, but only 38 to level to 5th. From there on, they increase, sometimes by 1, sometimes by 11 more encounters  needed to level. At 23rd level, it takes 93 encounters to level, but it then drops off and not until 36th do you need more than 90 encounters to level.

This system is based on prior work done for the DMG XP and DMG 2DA XP systems. Variables that are not new are discussed last.

Simple XP -
N_ENCOUNTERS_PER_LEVEL
N_ENC_INCREASE_SLIDER
Using a base encounters per level and an Increase slider, Simple XP allows you to specify how many encounters per level are required to go from 1st to 2nd, and by how much this number increases (or not). I also provided base numbers from both Bioware and the DMG for comparison so you can insert this system into existing campaigns without altering the balance and where players are expected to level.

Other configurable options -
Module slider -
N_MODULE_XP_SLIDER
really more of a legacy tool, you can leave the other options alone and adjust this like you would the module's xp slider.

Penalty slider -
N_CR_HD_PENALTY_SLIDER
This allows you to modify the adjustments for CR > Level and Level > CR. Both the DMG and Bioware loosely adhere to the CR equivalence relationship. For example, a single CR 4 creature is equivalent to 2 CR 2 creatures or 1 CR 3 and 1 CR 1 creature. The DMG varies slightly from this, likely to keep numbers round. Bioware differs in that 2 CR 2 creatures are worth less than 1 CR 4 creature. With the slider at 10, 2 CR 4 creatures or 1 CR 3 and 1 CR 5 creature or 1 CR 6 creature all result in equivalent xp awards. Increasing the slider will reduce the awards where CR does not equal player level.

Max award times base -
N_MAX_AWARD_X_BASE
This setting allows you to top out the awards so a particularly lucky player doesn't get more than his base award (where CR = Level) times this amount. Using this setting also allows the limit where players are receiving awards to be much higher without getting unbalancing awards.

Member weight slider -
N_MEMBER_WEIGHT_SLIDER
This was requested by PW builders and it is a percentage (base is 100%). If you set this to 25%, a one, two, three, or four member party will all be awarded the same amount. If a fifth person is added, the award is divided between 1.25 players. Minimum is always 1 party member.

Max CR > Level -
N_MAX_CR_GREATER_THAN_HD
Max Level > CR -
N_MAX_HD_GREATER_THAN_CR
I broke this into two settings so you can limit high level players from getting awards from killing very low CR creatures while still awarding players for boss monsters, etc, where CR is much higher than the player level. Using this with the 'Max award times base' setting, you can actually allow awards up to 40 or 60 difference without the awards getting too extreme.

-Power Level -
max party level difference -
N_MAX_PARTY_HD_DIFFERENCE
Since there are so many different viewpoints on this subject, I decided to make these options configurable. There is a max party level difference that is the maximum difference in levels between the highest and lowest level members.

no award for party -
B_NO_AWARD_FOR_PARTY
essentially a boolean, if players are over the max party level difference, and this is true, no one is awarded. If the players are over the max party level difference, only those under the difference are not awarded. Players within the margin specified by the max party level difference setting are awarded, however, the ineligible members are still counted as part of the total party members xp is to be divided by.

bypass Bioware's xp system
B_BYPASS_BIOWARE_XP -
With 1.64, I may be able to remove this option, since Bioware is supposed to be fixing the double xp message bug. Until then, it is not necessary to set the module's XP slider to zero. I incorporated an idea by TethyrDarknight to bypass both the slider and the double message for xp. Note: you won't be able to compare this system with the default Bioware awards with this implemented. If you want to do that, set both module sliders the same (the variable below and the actual module slider) and comment out the next line of code and uncomment the one following it.

use Bioware's multiclass penalty option
B_USE_MULTICLASS_PENALTY
This is a boolean (set to TRUE (1) or FALSE (O)) to decide whether or not to enforce Bioware's multi class penalty. Idea taken from Bioware scripting forum post by Ima Dufus FALSE would be like the DMG

count associates as party members option
B_COUNT_ASSOCIATES
If set to TRUE, the number of party members will include summons, companions, familiars, dominated or any other creature that GetNextFactionMember returns. If set to FALSE, only player characters (and henchmen, see below) will be counted. "creatures that enemies summon or otherwise add to their forces with magic powers. An enemy's ability to summon or add these creatures is a part of the enemy's CR already." pp 37, just below the steps to determine the XP award. So I included that in the option. These two options seemed to be tied together, that is, if I count the party's associate types when determining total party members to divide experience by, I should also award XP for enemies' associates and on the other hand, if I don't count the party's associates (except henchmen), I shouldn't award XP for enemies' associates.

count henchmen as party members option
B_COUNT_HENCHMEN
same as count associates option, only has no effect on enemies.

eligibility for xp
B_AWARD_DEAD_PLAYERS
If TRUE, allow dead/dying players to receive awards (per DMG, pp 41 'DEATH AND EXPERIENCE POINTS') I wouldn't necessarily recommend using this option, but I did included it as an option.

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Format

Code Only

Type

Type - Other

Includes

BioWare Standard

Description

What? Another XP script? Well, yes. I've had several requests for configurable options that don't really apply to XP systems that use static tables. (Party Member weights, separate min/max HD/cr & cr/HD difference, max HD difference between members, +/- scale params for HD != CR) Both the DMG XP and DMG 2DA XP systems' configurability are limited by their use of tables. Secondly, the DMG tables are specifically setup so that 13.33 encounters are required to level, but the Bioware tables yield increasing encounters per HD (sort of). This system lets you specify encounters per HD and whether or not to increase with each HD as well as by how much. Most of these are 'slider' type controls for ease of use. Also included is an excel file that allows you to tweak the various sliders and see the resultant table, along with bioware and dmg tables for comparison. Update **removed xp message bypass (with 1.64 there is no message when xp slider is set to 0) and updates recommended by Endlefas

Files

Name	Type	Size	Downloads
simplexpv107.zipsimplexpv107.zip Submitted: 09-01-2004 / Last Updated: 10-14-2004	zip	147.3Kb	649
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Comments (19):

Posted by Pstemarie at 2011-07-16 15:20:02 Voted 10.00 on 07/16/11

Integrated this with HCR2.0 - works great.
_________________________
--
Pstemarie - Project Q Team Artist

Posted by Shargast at 2011-06-23 14:18:22 Voted 10.00 on 06/23/11

Greetings, just incorporated this system (Actually Papa Lenin did it) into Shargast v3.0 cep2.4 (IN Action :)

It's working wonderfully! The adjustability of the script is beautiful!

Good solid scripting
Best Sai aka Shargast
_________________________
Realms of Shargast V1-V5ab, LOTR V15, The Undeath Clave & Faithful of Aerth

Posted by Olander at 2005-01-04 03:25:12 Voted 10.00 on 01/04/05

Solid DMG/PHB XP System.....more than Solid.....top of the heap in my book.
Great work here ST
Cheers!
Olander

Posted by Belial Prime ( 69.119.xxx.xxx ) at 2004-11-06 08:12:00

I'm getting the "You are too far away to recive the XP award" when in a party that is on different screens. Anyway to remove that?

Posted by ScrewTape at 2004-10-14 13:19:00

Updated erf posted with all Endlefas' recommendations as well as the bypass bioware code removed (with 1.64, if you set the module's xp slider to 0, no additional message appears).

Enjoy,
~ScrewTape

Posted by ScrewTape at 2004-10-14 13:19:00

Updated erf posted with all Endlefas' recommendations as well as the bypass bioware code removed (with 1.64, if you set the module's xp slider to 0, no additional message appears).

Enjoy,
~ScrewTape

Posted by ScrewTape at 2004-10-14 12:18:00

wow, not sure what happened to that last post. hmm, try again

Hey Endlefas,

Thanks for your analysis, though it took me a minute to remember what I was doing there and to "get it". That's a pretty good interim solution, but it's actually a bit of a weird problem. There should be no "extra" case for cr less than 1, and the
nAward = FloatToInt(fBaseXP * pow((0.8f - fAdjust), (fHD - fCR)));
should work fine for that case. I'm not sure what I was thinking when I added the extra case...

However, the way bioware handles it is a bit odd - all creatures with cr less than 1 return .5 from GetChallengeRating (whether it's a cow or a hobgoblin or whatever.) So, what I will do is change

else if (fCR >= 1.0f) // fHD > fCR
nAward = FloatToInt(fBaseXP * pow((0.8f - fAdjust), (fHD - fCR)));
else // fCR fCR
nAward = FloatToInt(fBaseXP * fCR);

to

else // fHD > fCR
nAward = FloatToInt(fBaseXP * pow((0.8f - fAdjust), (fHD - fCR)));

and everything should be good.

Thanks again Endlefas!
ScrewTape

Posted by ScrewTape at 2004-10-14 12:14:00

Hey Endlefas,

Thanks for your analysis, though it took me a minute to remember what I was doing there and to "get it". That's a pretty good interim solution, but it's actually a bit of a weird problem. There should be no "extra" case for cr less than 1, and the
nAward = FloatToInt(fBaseXP * pow((0.8f - fAdjust), (fHD - fCR)));
should work fine for that case. I'm not sure what I was thinking when I added the extra case...

However, the way bioware handles it is a bit odd - all creatures with cr = 1.0f) // fHD > fCR
nAward = FloatToInt(fBaseXP * pow((0.8f - fAdjust), (fHD - fCR)));
else // fCR fCR
nAward = FloatToInt(fBaseXP * fCR);
to
else // fHD > fCR
nAward = FloatToInt(fBaseXP * pow((0.8f - fAdjust), (fHD - fCR)));

everything should be good.

Thanks again Endlefas!
ScrewTape

Posted by ScrewTape at 2004-09-23 10:06:00

Point well taken, Endlefas. I'll add that and update the excel spread as well (I found another counting error in the spread and I added a couple of new columns for comparison -- the silly excel spread has taken far more time than the script itself :)

Posted by Endlefas ( 80.229.xxx.xxx ) at 2004-09-21 14:23:00

It matters not a jot to the level 40 player, but I was more concerned about how it could affect other members of his party if using the N_MAX_PARTY_HD_DIFFERENCE and B_NO_AWARD_FOR_PARTY options.

Tested the script a fair bit last night - seems to work just right. Thanks for your effort :)

Posted by ScrewTape at 2004-09-21 11:12:00

Thanks Endlefas, nice catch. I was not aware you would continue to accumulate xp after 780000. :) You are right, that's a good way to limit that. Although, since the system is not table based, it will award the player as if he was level 41 or 42 etc. But it should continue to award them as if they were 40. (Not sure it really matters much at that point though :) )

Posted by Endlefas ( 80.229.xxx.xxx ) at 2004-09-20 13:08:00

Errr.... with a semi-colon on the end of

return nLevel;

or course :p

Posted by Endlefas ( 80.229.xxx.xxx ) at 2004-09-20 13:05:00

Looks like an interesting and useful XP script. Putting it through its paces now, but noticed a issue that you might like to correct...

This bit:

// GetHitDiceByXP
// Solve for hd from xp = hd * (hd - 1) * 500
// hd = 1/50 * (sqrt(5) * sqrt(xp + 125) + 25)
int GetHitDiceByXP(float fXP)
{
return FloatToInt(0.02 * (sqrt(5.0f) * sqrt(fXP + 125.0f) + 25.0f));
}

will effectively return PC levels in excess of level 40 if the PC has XP over 820000. Changing to this (or similar) fixes it:

// GetHitDiceByXP
// Solve for hd from xp = hd * (hd - 1) * 500
// hd = 1/50 * (sqrt(5) * sqrt(xp + 125) + 25)
int GetHitDiceByXP(float fXP)
{
int nLevel = FloatToInt(0.02 * (sqrt(5.0f) * sqrt(fXP + 125.0f) + 25.0f));
if (nLevel > 40) nLevel =40;
return nLevel
}

Good work, though. Almost exactly the XP script I was looking for :)

Endlefas

Posted by ScrewTape at 2004-09-18 15:53:00

Hey, I just checked and the zip was 1.05, not sure what happened there, but I reuploaded 1.06 just in case. I also then downloaded it again to make sure and the dl was 1.06, sorry for any confusion.

Posted by ScrewTape at 2004-09-17 00:29:00

I updated the eligibility checks, especially if you are using B_AWARD_DEAD_PLAYERS. Now, you only receive awards if you are within normal clipping distance (dead or alive) to keep dead players from sitting there and collecting awards. Big thanks to Belial Prime for his help in smashing the gremlins :)

I also updated the excel spread, I had one calculation that was using too many columns so it would throw off the charts depending on what values you had set.

I'm considering a "suggested settings" guide, since this really turned out to be 'not so simple' heh. Having said that, the excel spread is your friend. Use it to see exactly what the awards will be in game. Let me know if the suggested settings would be helpful (DMG, Bioware, PW, etc).

~ScrewTape~

Posted by ScrewTape at 2004-09-05 14:57:00

Hmm, there were no downloads when I started the update :) For the 5 or so who downloaded before I finished, the script is exactly the same, I just updated the excel spreadsheet to included more of the options.

Enjoy,
~ScrewTape~

Posted by ScrewTape at 2004-09-04 17:21:00

Erf and excel spread posted - excel spread doesn't account for 'max xp = X * base' or party member weight (yet...)

Enjoy

Posted by ScrewTape at 2004-09-03 08:55:00

RE: "There isn't anything to download."

My bad, I made the post with only text intending to get the erf up before the post became public, but I haven't gotten around to it yet. I have a couple of PL params I haven't gotten into the excel spread, but I'll go ahead and post it sometime this eve (9/3/04) and update the excel file later this weekend.

~ScrewTape

Posted by Anonymous ( 65.13.xxx.xxx ) at 2004-09-03 05:48:00

There isn't anything to download.

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