This small Mod rebalances the various animal companions to be a little bit more useful, both in general and against each other, as well as fixes some errors that were present in their default blueprints.
Posted by Dromano at 2012-04-17 08:07:53 Voted 9.50 on 04/17/12
Thanks so much -- I installed this, and even though the patch is 1.22, it seems to work well. I appreciate the submission and the fact that the animal companions are now somewhat useful! I also didn't want to use Cyphre's animal companions, since I don't have or want Kaedrin's pack (too much new, unfamiliar stuff for my stodgy D&D3.5 sensibilities).
Posted by LadyRaven at 2009-07-20 17:52:20 Voted 10.00 on 07/20/09
Wonderful! I had always hoped someone would make the animals a bit less...wimpy. Thank you very much!
The Dragon Companion should not be more powerful than an adult dragon of the same type. Right now the Dragon is more powerful than the Dino; higher Str, Con, Saves, and a Breathweapon.
The problem, again, is not with the Dragon Companion itself. The problem is in the Feats required to acquire it. And editing their requirements is beyond the scope of this Mod. _________________________ Nemo non Morior Anime Overviews MP3 Player Playlist
Intresting conversation xD.
Thought I agree with Orgolove.
The dragon companior should be "Cost-effective" compared to the dinosaur one.
What is the idea to buy multi-million dollar WW Beetle if you can buy Veyron with half the price.
This Mod's purpose it to rebalance the Animal Companions themselves to be comparible to one another. Not the classes/feats required to acquire them. _________________________ Nemo non Morior Anime Overviews MP3 Player Playlist
It's simply a matter of math: compared to the investment you have to make in order to get a dragon companion, you invest nearly nothing to get a dinosaur companion. And yet, the dinosaur companion is better (or in your hakpak's case, comparable) than the dragon companion.
You are not investing a single thing to get the Dragon Companion. That's what I'm trying to get across to you.
Dragon Companion is a Bonus Feat that you have the option of choosing if you acquired Dragon Shape. Dragon Shape is the Feat that requires the ridiculous amount of investment here, not Dragon Companion. You're projecting DS's inadequacies onto DC.
What if DS only required you to be level 21... would DC be terrible then? Do not blame the child Feat for the sins of the parent. _________________________ Nemo non Morior Anime Overviews MP3 Player Playlist
I don't believe this. Are you seriously going to bring in the "adherence to DND rules" argument into this? In Neverwinter Nights 2?
The very system of animal companions in nwn2 is faulty to begin with, as the animal companions are given at a set level according to the character's druid/animal domain cleric level. And as far as I know, that is something that the author of this hakpak did not fix - the dragon companions WILL be given as a level 20+ animal companion when using this mod.
Surely there's no problem with the dinosaur companion, as he can be recruited as a level 1 companion to begin with. But the game literally lacks definitions for sub level 20 dragon companions - there is nothing defined for them, and any attempts to have a level 19 or below dragon companion will fail. (Try it)
So we established that the game itself does not adhere much to the DnD ruleset. Thus, what you are attempting to argue here is that a level 20+ dragon companion should be made as weak as a level 1 dragon whelp, since
1. only level 20+ druids/clerics can get the dragon companions
2. the dragon companions are automatically set to level 20+
3. any dragon companion's power must be set to level 1 when it is first obtained
Do you see the issue here yet? You argue for adherence to DnD. But as level 1 companions with 20+ levels in druid/cleric was not implemented by this hak's author, the only way to rationalize your wish is to make a "new" level 20 dragon companion be equivalent to a level 1 dragon companion. This obviously completely destroys any semblance of adherence to DnD rules, which nullifies your argument to begin with.
Considering that according to the 3.5E Players Handbook, any companions that are more powerful than the ones you can select at first level (this includes the Dino) are started out at level 1, no matter what your character level is, I'd say that adherence to D&D rules trumps the normal way RPG's work.
... It's not an issue of the dragon being "old enough" or not. That's mere cosmetics. You have to focus on the gameplay, as that's where it really matters.
It's simply a matter of math: compared to the investment you have to make in order to get a dragon companion, you invest nearly nothing to get a dinosaur companion. And yet, the dinosaur companion is better (or in your hakpak's case, comparable) than the dragon companion.
Think about it. Simple math.
If you pay much more to get that which is essentially much worse than something that you can get for nearly free, then why will you ever get the more "expensive" one?
If you still don't understand, let me give you another example. In an RPG, you have an ability that you get from the start, and you can also obtain another ability at level 20 if you invest a lot of time and effort into it. You would assume that the second ability that you obtain at level 20 would be better than the ability you start with.
And yet, it turns out that the ability you start with is actually better than the level 20 ability. Wouldn't you feel angry? Cheated?
... If you still don't understand, I might as well go and release my own hakpak that fixes these issues.
Let me reiterate: The fixes you have made do not address the inherent "imbalance" of the cost/benefit issue between dinosaur companions and dragon companions.
why is it that the assumption seems to be that a Dragon Companion would necessarily be old enough to have a significant boost in stats compared to the Dino
I wonder this myself. The default companions are so powerful because they were your companion and soaking up your levels for the past 30 levels. The Dragon companions don't have this advantage though since you get them in the final third of your levels.
Honestly, them being nearly on par with an adult dragon of the same type (which I altered them to be) should make them more than powerful enough as is. _________________________ Nemo non Morior Anime Overviews MP3 Player Playlist
Actually, the Dinosaur Companion isn't supposed to be available until 7th level (at least according to the Players Handbook) and I haven't found either the Epic Animal Companion feat or any indication that a Druid should even get a Dragon Companion; all that aside, why is it that the assumption seems to be that a Dragon Companion would necessarily be old enough to have a significant boost in stats compared to the Dino?
And regarding the three types of buffs that do not work: greater magic fang, jagged tooth, and nature's avatar: If you insist that you need another mod so that it can be applied to the dragon companion, then your argument doesn't have any merit to begin with, since we're talking about just your balance file as a standalone mod. Given the fact that the BASE game does not allow dragon companions to be buffed at all, any mod that claims to balance the animal companions need to vastly buff the dragon companions, above and beyond all the other companions.
Of course, the dragon companion has a prerequisite as just the "Dragon Companion" feat, so if you only count that, then yes, you only need one feat.
However, consider that the dragon companion feat requires an insanely high 30 Wisdom, BASE.
And the highest wisdom you can get is with an Aasimar, and with it, you can get up to 25 wisdom at level 20.
Here's the progression up to level 30, and that's only if you went 30 druid, which is a sub optimal class anyway:
Level, Wisdom, Feat Name
1 20
2
3
4 21
5
6
7
8 22
9
10
11
12 23
13
14
15
16 24
17
18
19
20 25
21 26
22
23
24 27 28 29
25
26
27 30
28 Epic Animal Comp
29
30 Any feat
So. Dragon Companions, as something that you need to spend so much effort and devote so much of your build on, should not only be comparable to the dinosaur companion, but should be superior to the dinosaur, which can be get at level 1 without any build dedicated around it.
And don't tell me that you will count the dragon breath as one of the "useful" features of the dragon companion... the breath is extremely weak - it barely tickles the enemies at the level you can get the dragon companions (20-30 damage in one round against level 25-30 enemies), and the AI doesn't even use it that often.
As for the magic Fang issue; that can easily be fixed by changing the spell's script. The spell, after all, doesn't work on them by design. There's nothing wrong with their blueprints.
I even seem to recall that someone had already done so in fact. _________________________ Nemo non Morior Anime Overviews MP3 Player Playlist
I already did improve them quite noticably from what they used to be, and they are most certainly not inferior to the Dino. The Dino does not have a repeatable breath weapon, does not have a Spellcraft score, does not have Power Attack, Knockdown, or Disarm, and has less Constitution and Strength. Yes, it has more Dex, but then that makes total sense because Dragons are not Dextrous.
And, if you want to get real technical, they only really 'require' 1 Feat, since both Dragon Shape and Epic Companion are quite useful in their own right. Well, at least Epic Companion is... Dragon Shape would be if it could use it's breath weapon. _________________________ Nemo non Morior Anime Overviews MP3 Player Playlist
I had hoped that this had greatly improved the dragon companions... But even here, I see the same flaw as was apparent in the original game - the dragon companions are infinitely inferior to the dinosaur companion. Considering that the dragon companions require an investment of almost every single feat learned up to level 29, surely it wouldn't be too difficult to make the dragon companions superior to the other companions? Especially absurd in the game is that the dinosaur companion can be obtained at level 1 at the cost of just one feat, while the dragon companions are only obtainable with epic druid levels. Plus the fact that the dragon companions cannot get any of the companion special buffs, such as magic fang or nature's avatar...
Really, I request that you improve the dragon companions, at least twice as much.
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10 - A Masterpiece, Genuinely Groundbreaking 9 - Outstanding, a Must Have 8 - Excellent, Recommended to Anyone 7 - Very Good, Deserves a Look 6 - Good, Qualified Recommendation 5 - Fair, Solid yet Unremarkable 4 - Some Merit, Requires Improvements 3 - Poor Execution, Potential Unrealized 2 - Very Little Appeal 1 - Not Recommended to Anyone
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