v 1.01 changelog:
-The Hag in the troll fens now drops her eye on death.
-Fixed dialog bugs with Rufus and Canoness Y�dey convos.
-Either method of completing �Spies among us� now correctly mark the quest as completed.
The Temple of Elemental Evil Revisited is my own take on Gygax's classic pen and paper module.
It�s impossible to imagine the mod being produced without Troika�s The Temple of Elemental Evil. There aren�t many games were I was so bitterly divided between the things I liked about the game and the things I disliked. As much as I enjoyed the combat system, I found the actual encounters simplistic and repetitive and as much as I liked the idea of a huge, balkanized pentagon-sized fortress filled with bugbears, the lack of storytelling left me cold. The Temple of Elemental Evil Revisited is my own little attempt to create a game with the basic ToEE set-up that a) gives the player choices about how he/she wants to deal with the temple, b) has an enjoyable story without railroading the player into it and c) has gameplay that people enjoy.
There are a lot of different elements that I had to weigh to try to make all of this happen, but I�m pleased with the final result. The three basic principles that I tried to keep in mind in design were to keep try to design encounters that would take advantage of the ruleset, to allow choices about the progression of the plot and to make the player feel involved in the story of the temple, both in terms of exposition and background and in terms of some connection to the PC.
There are also a number of things that I�ve changed from the original module (and by extension from Troika�s very faithful remake), some of these are minor (It�s set in Forgotten Realms, not Greyhawk, the geography of the temple has changed), some aren�t (Lareth and Lolth�) and I�m certain that many loyal fans aren�t going to like the changes (particularly since Gary Gygax died yesterday, I�m writing this on 3/5/08). To those people, I�d just like to say that I understand. Please give the module a try anyway; you might find something you like.
The unbelievable controls and restrictions this author places on his module is pathetic and ridiculous--guaranteeing few will ever play this, he shoots himself in the foot. I passed it over for years and then loaded it to see--and instantly exited. I don't see the point. You HAVE to be level 8, you HAVE to have no equipment, you HAVE to have these companions that are part of your history and you get absolutely NO experience. Loosen up dude and live a little. I'll never play this based on the overbearing controls--no skin off my back but a shame for you, pushing away all the potential players of your work.
Posted by GCoyote at 2011-09-12 16:46:14 Voted 4.75 on 09/12/11
*** SPOILERS ***
Positives - only one actual bug, the bridge in the fire node mentioned earlier on this page. Nice looking, with reasonable attention to graphic detail.
Negatives:
No resting plus spawning = fairly repetitive combats. Waves of bad guys require either a greater variety of crafting supplies or a larger assortment of magical arms and armor as treasures (only a handful of chests or cabinets contain anything.) Also the no-rest restriction remains in force even in areas already cleared.
No scrolls in the stores but ordinary grunts have random scrolls on them? _________________________ Too much ammo is a self correcting problem.
Posted by GCoyote at 2011-08-28 19:47:57 Voted 4.75 on 09/12/11
Finally got to the Temple. I get the concept of a no-XP module but so far I have to say it isn't working for me. Leveling up allows you to adjust for assumptions you made during character creation that turned out not to be true without starting over. It also allows you to adapt your characters to the design as you learn what secrets the designer has tucked into the mod.
I've done a bit of editing to make it a little more playable. Still have not found the switch to turn the level-up routine back on though. PM/email if you know how to do this. _________________________ Too much ammo is a self correcting problem.
****WARNING**** THIS IS A NO-EXPERIENCE-POINTS MODULE
I'm posting this so that others will not have to download ang get the Read-Me file to find this out. I downloaded looking for a module to take a level 8 character up towards a goal of level 13, in preparation for another mod. Imagine my disappointment.
Perhaps this warning could be included in the mod blurb above.
Cheers,
Dave Fritz
Posted by fuzzyillogic at 2009-06-06 15:36:17 Voted 5.00 on 06/06/09
The module seems well crafted, and the author have clearly devoted quite a lot of time to creating this module. Nothwithstanding this, I can't give the module an high vote for the choice of lowering so much magic and taking away level increases. I can understand the feeling of the author about levels, in PnP games I myself do the same thing for my players... *but* I do this in role-play-heavy adventures, where they'll have only very scarce and plot-important fights... If my players have to endure a dungeon crawl, they're doing this for only 2 reasons: xp and loot.
With a wonderful story, full of deep moral choices, devious puzzles, and so on, I'll willingly play with 1st level chars from start to end. I could also enjoy a long serie of always-the-same battles if the game system had a more deep tactical flavour and the party was more customizable (like old turn-based games and tactical simulations... pausing by hand every 2 seconds and wrestling with stupid nwn2 AI is not the same I'm afraid...).
As it is, the battles become boring quickly, and there's no real rewards making me willing to endure the difficulties of extensive dungeons with few chances to rest and recharge the slim magic reserves of magic users.
I've downloaded this and am experiencing a problem -- no party shows up. I talk to everyone in Hommlet, but no party, even when I leave town to travel to an area. Has anyone reported this issue before, and if so, how do I fix it? Thank you. Looking forward to trying this -- the thought of playing a mod without gaining XP is intriguing.
Hmm, I'll look into it. In the meantime, if the bridge really isn't crossable, you can use the console to give yourself the gem (shame to miss the balor though)
Possible bug. I am in the fire node and I can't cross the first bridge so I can't get to the Gem of Elemental Fire. Any suggestions?
Posted by Jorlemayne at 2008-09-07 14:27:29 Voted 4.25 on 09/07/08
What this needs is a major patch. No XP, what is the point with no character development. I got to the Moathouse dungeon and had enough and deleted the mod from my system.
Posted by Whiteafrican at 2008-08-30 07:15:19 Voted 7.50 on 08/30/08
Difficult to give you such a low score as you obviously put a lot of efforts in this.
But you made some very drastic and unpopular design choices.
I agree that there are too many mods out there where you can find uber equipment too easily. But in your case, is going to the other extreme (no items at all available) really realistic since you state that this mod is based in Forgotten Realms where a 3rd level Cleric can brew potions ?
I agree also that too many mods are combat XP oriented only. Again, is going to an extreme (no XP at all) a good choice ? One of the reason of playing DnD is to have character progressing, gaining new skills and change tactics over time. In your mod, not having access to that means to keep doing the same things over and over and over again.
Really it has some great potential, but I feel I�m hitting a tennis ball against a wall. It�s challenging at first, but redundant after 6 hours.
I haven't done any testing in multiplayer; I don't know of anything that won't work with it, but if you actually remove the companions using the party roster (as opposed to just ignoring them) that might break some convos.
First question is how this is up as a new module? As I can remember it being available before I think it had 1 vote of a 6 and a few comments.
What changes have taken place having played upto a certain point again can't see too many?
There is the option to craft equipment but I could not find any magician table. Had the necessary ingredients to make +1 weapons. But again for crafting certain items eg +1d6 fire you have to be a caster level of 10?
The problem I had first time as I could not enter lizards village, on top of no xp etc.
Now we decided to kill Lareth and go back to Rufus. He tells us to see Black Jay and Elmo, we do.
Anyway somewhere we find out about a Capt Tolub before enterning Nulb.
Also Merloc comes up with the idea to let the lizard's have Nulb. As the leader I decide that we shall have to wait and see.
Visit Otis and Mother Screng, who tell me that I must gain the trust of Tolub before a meeting. Again nothing was mentioned about this?
So I go and see Tolub and there are 2 options, 1 To Leave and 2 To follow Merloc's idea and kill him. I can only do 2.
Lizards now in control go back to Hommlett where Screng, Otis and Elmo aren't very happy and end of conversations with them.
I have mentioned this before I would always give a minimum of a 7 for every mod I play due to the huge amount of respect and admiration for the author's, ie their free time. But will not vote on this module.
Once more disappointed with this module. The only reason I played it is that there is nothing else to play. I have tried probably 3 times to enjoy it but I am sorry this was my final attempt at a game that tries to be different in some ways but fails to deliver in too many other ways. For the record I have played most if not all 2 hour+ NWN2 modules and I believe about 160 NWN modues, some of the latter would only give xp for completing a quest.
It is such a shame as TOEE was my favourite PnP module for DMing
It's pretty easy for a rogue (most rogues have both anyway), a bard, a sorcerer or a wizard could also do it, or anyone with able learner. At level 8, a skill you have maxed will have 11 ranks, if you have a fourteen in the attribute, that'll give you a total score of 13, but even if you only have an 8 in the attribute, that'll give you 10 ranks, so don't worry about attributes unless you're spreading your skills out, worry about skill ranks.
Sorry to say this:
I used 1.01 version, regot queen hag quest , killed her and no eye still.
For the secret store question I asked with paladin buffed at 15 diplomatic 0 appraise no effect. I suppose i need to do otehr things before I could see it or it is a bug as i dont see how an avaatr no bard could have mor ethen 15 diplomatic ability.
Sorry to disturb again but where do I put thw mod suggested?
DebugMode 1
GiveItem te_it_hag_eye
DebugMode 0
On teh Melub convo... I suppose I have to begin teh mod again as I used a paladin taht have with spell can have 20 diplomacy but has not appraise (appraise it is not a paladin ability i suppose rogue is necessary then and companion rogue to whom gave 5 appraise seems no good for that))
Sadly the hag's eye quest really is bugged, I've fixed it and that fix will be in version 1.01 along with some other minor fixes. In the meantime, you can continue the quest by giving yourself the eye:
DebugMode 1
GiveItem te_it_hag_eye
DebugMode 0
@TimoteiYounge:
To get the lizards to disperse (and hence continue the main quest) you have to kill their leader (or come to terms with him). It's impossible for six people to kill every lizardman in the valley, the lizardmen you see in the village represent a larger population (a village of 500-600) but today's computer games can't simulate real life quite that directly.
@Ettore:
-A village blacksmith can't supply you with plate mail and falchions, you can either make them yourself or start with basic weapons (spears, leather armor, handaxes). Better weapons/armor are available later in the game.
-If you look at the line in Melubb's convo, it has a [Appraise/Diplomacy] tag, these are the skills you need.
Another question: how special store of Jeweler is given???
How much carisma is needed? with 20 it is not enough!
The worst thing of the no exp solution is taht it is impossible to change abilities in a game where you dont know what you need.-
In the mod there there are no jewels, no armor, no exp, no potions, only craft way for some things. Dont you think that this is too far by the D&D universe?
Errata corridge
The smith sell 50 inkots every time for this he asks 252 golds.
other question no potions in game so you need to ahev potion feet
it should be better that players knows before that they will hace no such things so they will get the craft and abilities in making the companions
A bug: smith asks 252 golds for a iron inkot....adn if you get 1 his stock(50) is always same.
So,to begin the quest is almost impoissibel as the smith has no decent weapons and armours and you must make them In this way a simple sword asks more 500 golds and you have 1000 for teh group gear !
I am not going to vote yet as this does not feel like a finished/polished mod and I also had a few bugs that spoiled it for me.
Liked:
- Starting with pretty much nothing and having some say in party make-up. I imported a character from before that had some nice gear and I liked the fact that he had nice stats, but not the gear to rely on anymore. :)
- Nice combat encounters. Really had to think about what I did and could not just click to hack & slash my way through. Died a lot and proud of it... :)
- Due to challenging combat, I felt more companionship with the...erm...companions.
Disliked: (sorry, this is a longer list, but hopefully feedback that will help you improve it, so please take as constructive criticism)
- Really bland NPCs (town's folk, quest givers, etc.)
- Really bland companions (with nothing more to say than what they started off with. Once I know what they want from the shop, please take it out of dialogue options.) A description of MEDIUM under Roleplay section is not really justified - this implies at the very least some opportunities to question companions about their background or something, possibly love interest or quests for them. Unless I missed something there was VERY little further interaction with companions.
- Some areas too big considering what is in them. Almost felt like an excuse to queue up several mobs of the same for combat. Combat was interesting and challenging. But not THAT interesting that it warranted half a dozen groups of spiders in the same level of the moat house for instance.
- I did not like the forcing of a "relative" (read brother) into the list of companions. In this case the companions hardly interacted (at least as far as I could tell playing for two or three hours) so it probably did not matter too much, but forcing a relative into a party always makes me feel as if my character history is violated. I always like the history of what preceded the start of any adventure to be as neutral as possible. This is obvioulsy a personal opinion, but I thought I'd voice it anyway. I appreciate that some background to the current situation needs to be made up by the game creator, but as far as personal relationships are concerned (anything more than an aquaintance) should be made in-game and not be predetermined.
- If you decide to port something from one campaign setting to another, please do it completeky. I do not mind people making up locations in FR setting (it is almost inevitable!) but things like deities/religions, etc. that are Greyhawk do not sit right with me if the setting is FR. Lore is important for atmosphere...so I prefer it to be as close as reasonably possible to canon. Again, as I did not play through, St Cuthbert in this case could refer to something totally different, but as far as I could tell the name was being used in the Greyhawk context which has no place for FR story. I appreciate he is part of the D&D "generic" pantheon, but as you went to effort making it a FR based adventure, it would have been nice to stick to a FR deity as well. Oghma or Deneir might have done...
- Some bugs prevented me from doing some (what might be critical path) quests. So stopped playing.
Bugs:
- Could not finish "Kill Lizzard Men" quest for Pirate Captain. I got the quest but no matter how many lizzards I killed in the swamp, I could never hand in the quest and had no dialogue option to get around it. After being given the quest, the only dialogue I could get out of the pirate was "Farewell".
- Hag's eye never dropped, so either I killed the wrong hag expecting a drop or this is also a bug.
Currently, my theoretical vote for the mod is 6. It has a lot of potential, but it is one of those mods where, try as much as I like, I cannot really get immersed in the world, firstly due to lack of companion interaction and secondly due to campaing lore conflicts. Bugs just kinda pushes it from a 7 to a 6 for me.
Nonetheless, I am always thankful that people take the time to put their work out there and I want to say thanks for releasing this. Hopefully, you will fix some of the bugs and post an updated version. When you do, I'll try to turn a blind eye to the lore conflicts and start over. I'm not much of a hack & slash man, but this was done well enough to make it worth while - if even only for the combat. Sadly, this had the opportunity to be a nice roleplaying game too, but the elements that would qualify this as a MEDIUM roleplay experience were sadly lacking for me.
Please keep in mind that I do not mean to rip the mod - it has a lot of potential and is still enjoyable in it's own way. And I really appreciate the effort of anyone taking their valuable time and releasing something for free. :) I do not write up on mods I play often, so just the fact that I take the time to write means I am impressed (if at the same time somewhat disappointed). Hopefully we will get to see some more of your work. Keep it up and good luck!
I may try this one again later, but it's a slow starter. You have to level up five bland companions. You don't have any gear, which is sort of interesting, but you can't rest, so after most fights you have to go back to town, into the inn, upstairs, rest, then reverse.
The Hag's eye thing, repeatable rufus and y'dey dialog and spies in hommlet thing all definitely sound like bugs, I'll look into them.
It sounds like Tolub is WAD (that quest may need to be split up a little) and if Rentsch is gone, you're fine, just go back and talk to Romag again. Though if you don't want to join the earth temple, you can go deeper into the temple without using the map (and you'll have to the first time anyway). Check the mini-map, you should see "Door to the 3rd floor of the Temple" marked as a map point. Once you go to the 3rd floor that way, then you can use the scrolls for fast travel.
10 - A Masterpiece, Genuinely Groundbreaking 9 - Outstanding, a Must Have 8 - Excellent, Recommended to Anyone 7 - Very Good, Deserves a Look 6 - Good, Qualified Recommendation 5 - Fair, Solid yet Unremarkable 4 - Some Merit, Requires Improvements 3 - Poor Execution, Potential Unrealized 2 - Very Little Appeal 1 - Not Recommended to Anyone
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